Just for the record, I do not accuse any individual on either side of this controversy of deliberate idolatry in the way he understands the scriptures, and I hope no one accuses me of that. In the past, I have said that UCG as an organization seems to be making an idol out of their commitment to using balloting to select leaders, not because I think they are mistaken in their views, but because they seemed to be so committed to their governance system that they seemed to be unwilling to even consider changing it. But I usually try to avoid accusing particular individuals of anything more than making a mistake because I cannot know any man's heart as God knows the heart.
Anyone can make a mistake in understanding of the scriptures, and only God can judge a particular individual for his attitude, views, and teachings because only God knows the heart. We make a mistake when we become too harsh towards each other for our differences. I would not want God to be harsh with me when I make mistakes, so I try not to be harsh with others. There is a way to debate controversial issues honestly and with respect, and I try to have a right balance in that.
Could I be wrong about governance? Of course I could. I am human. Perhaps I misunderstood the Bible about something. But I want to strive the best I can to understand the scriptures and believe what I read.
If someone is to show me I am wrong, it will have to be through the Bible, through logic, or through historical information I can check up on or know about. God can also put me through experiences through circumstances that will teach me lessons and make me think about things with a fresh perspective. And God can use us to correct each other and teach each other, and I am always aware that God may show me something through correction from others, so when someone disagrees with me, I try to follow their logic and compare it to mine to see if I might be wrong.
But that is not just true about governance. It is true for any doctrine, the Sabbath, the holy days, the nature of God - you name it. My commitment is not to these doctrines, but to the Word of God itself. I only believe the doctrines of the Church as long as I see that the Bible teaches them, but if someone showed me something in the Bible I did not see before, my commitment to God to believe what He says requires me to compare it with everything else in the Bible with an open mind and believe what God says, even if it means I have to change my doctrinal beliefs. No one has shown me from the Bible that I am wrong about the Sabbath or any other major doctrine so far.
Over time, God will correct our mistakes to the degree we are willing to believe what He says, but sometimes that correction and our learning takes time and we should be patient with each other. None of us knows everything perfectly yet, so we should still be willing to learn new things, even from each other. "As iron sharpens iron, So a man sharpens the countenance of his friend" (Proverbs 27:17). See also 1 Corinthians 13:9-13, 2 Peter 3:18, 1 Thessalonians 5:21, Acts 17:11, and Proverbs 11:14.
The reasons I believe top-down governance is what the Church of God should have rather than using balloting to choose leaders is that I see many examples of God using top-down governance in the Bible, but no examples of God setting up a system of balloting, and the Bible seems to teach us that we should learn from the examples in the Bible and not just commandments. Also, I see the fruits of Mr. Armstrong's top-down governance, and it seems to be better and greater fruit than anything produced by a group governed by a system of balloting. I think the fruits of his leadership are good, in spite of his mistakes and shortcomings, because none of us would be here if it was not for the work God did through him. I might be persuaded that I am wrong about governance, but I don't know how anyone can do so except to show me from the Bible that a) we are to learn only by the commands of God, not His examples, or b) the examples of the Bible endorse balloting as much as top-down structure in God's government. Show me one of both of these, and I will reconsider my position. Or show me from the Bible some other way. But personal insults will not persuade me much, nor would I expect them to persuade those who disagree with me.
COG NEWS UPDATE:
Michael Hanisko has reported on COGWA finances in his COGWA – Beloit blog. Steve McNeely, a COGWA accountant, reported that June income was over $800,000, and income for the year so far is about $3,880,000. He also reports that COGWA has a reserve in the bank of about $1,430,000 and that just under $400,000 of that is reserved for preaching the gospel.
Here is a link to that post:
http://cogbeloit.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/sabbath-note-7-29-11
More to come...
Here are links to related sections in Preaching the Gospel:
Government in the Church, Chapter 5
Following the Bible -- Pattern of Government, Chapter 6
Church Government, Chapter 7
How Is the Church Organized?, Chapter 7
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7 comments:
@ Author; "I do not accuse any individual on either side of this controversy of deliberate idolatry in the way he understands the scriptures, and I hope no one accuses me of that."
I have not seen anything on your blogs that would even suggest that you would do that. However, I cannot say the same for others I have visited in the past.
Having said that and also having been accused here by John Carmack of idolatry over trying to hold fast to truth about what Scripture reveals on governance from the top down---let me just say that in over 35 years of being in the COG--I have found that those that have a problem with top down governing are usaully the ones that commit idolatry simply by rejecting truth and claiming something of God is not really of God! This is a very dangerous mind-set for people claiming to be Christians to have.
You are absolutly right in the fact that we are all still human and can be mistaken--but the COG is willing to be corrected--from any sorce. the one sure Scripture that absolutely proves top down government is 1Cor.11:3 and does show "one man rule" or leadership for the physical family. Christ is the head of the COG and it's future husband, according to Eph.5 and no one led by the Spirit of God should deny this. I feel sorry for those who will not let their minds accept this.
Editor
Hello,
In response to:
"I think the fruits of his leadership are good, in spite of his mistakes and shortcomings, because none of us would be here if it was not for the work God did through him."
That may not be necessarily true, there are other organizations who also do their best to keep the commandments. The most proliferant today would be Messianic Judaism, though they were quite small during the latertime of Herbert Armstrong. Not to mention others at the beginning of Herbert Armstrong's time also understood thing like the annual holy days. As the scripture says:
Esth 4:14 "For if you altogether hold your peace at this time, then shall there enlargement and deliverance arise to the Jews from another place; but you and your father's house shall be destroyed: and who knows whether you are come to the kingdom for such a time as this?"
Also when it comes how decisions are made, the binding and loosing, which is better? One man or several men?
Matt 16:19 "And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Matt 18:18-20 "Truly I say to you, Whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say to you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the middle of them."
Norbert
@author—“Also, I see the fruits of Mr. Armstrong's top-down governance, and it seems to be better and greater fruit than anything produced by a group governed by a system of balloting.”
I agree and am sure you are aware of this being of God, in spite of what many vehemently claim who reject this—but (I am expressing an opinion here that I think is supported by Scripture) that was Philadelphia and is over for the most part—Laodicea being this time frame today. True Christians were to hold fast what they were given then, so they could pass it on to the few who would remain faithful, as you are trying to do. Many today should simply think about what role these words “balloting or voting” and “nominee” really play in the Bible. Can they be found? I know some will claim this is something used in the COG—commentaries and bible helps are sometime infused with a lot of protestant spin on truth, but realistically—the words “politics or political” which are all systems of man under the influence of Satan and were in use by the Roman system in Christ’s time, were never employed by Christ. If Christ is to be our example—which He is—then all we need to do is look at what Christ did—right? Some miss the impact of Scriptures like Luke 6:13 “And when it was day, He (Christ) called His disciples to Himself; and from them He (Christ) chose twelve whom He (Christ) also named apostles:” Where are ballots cast or people (Committees) sent out to bring their favorite as a “nominee” or as “candidates”—I don’t see it here, do you? John 15:16 (NIV) “You did not choose me, but I (Christ) chose you and appointed you (placed in position) to go and bear fruit-- fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.”
Acts 1:24 You oh Lord--- show which of these two You have chosen” (NKJ)
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles”--- I am sorry if this seems harsh—but anyone who reads these and the many more like them and still insists that Christ did away with top down governing is a liar and the truth is not in him. HWA was not wrong about the form of governance he used—it is Biblical. All of these other forms being used today are at the very least—Lukewarm and watered down versions of truth.
@Norbert "Also when it comes how decisions are made, the binding and loosing, which is better? One man or several men?"
Either one of these can be affective if it is obvious that all involved are focused on Christ and the fruits are there--but it is still top down governing. Paul said to follow him AS he followed Christ--not just any ole way he or anyone else chose to lead.
Anony Jon
Anony Jon,
The modern translations seem to be equally divided between tranlating "mimetes" as imitate and follower in the verse you are paraphrasing.
1Cor 11:1
Be you followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. (AKJV)
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ. (RSV)
Is that verse talking about top down governing or is it about imitating his example of conduct as it conforms to Christ?
Here is another verse using the same word with slightly different context.
3John 1:11
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that does good is of God: but he that does evil has not seen God. (AKJV)
Beloved, do not imitate evil but imitate good. He who does good is of God; he who does evil has not seen God. (RSV)
What is the subject matter of those verses; top down governing?
Norbert
Norbert,
I was simpply using that in a general sense--If Paul was in authority over others--which he was--and yet clearly understood Christ as the head of the COG, Paul knowing he was also under authority--then that would also include top down governing when we follow the proper authorities in what they direct--as long as it is clearly seen to follow Christ and Scripture.
I hope I did not confuse you with this.
I read a statement on John Carmacks blog a while back and he said that Christ (paraphrasing)set people--such as the apostles on the bottom--indicating that Christ reversed top down governing---turned it on its head--which is totally false--but at least that is an admition that there was top down governing in the old testament--which there was. Some people just cannot grasp that God and Christ are the same and do not change.
I am a solid believer in top down governing for the COG--(which let me add is NOT idolatry--what a redicules claim!) but it was never meant for being dictitorial--only serving and leading. I think the author and the Editor are of the same position--if I understand them correctly.
Anony Jon
Anony Jon,
In my view I try not to read any more out of the scriptures than is actually in there to begin with. Albeit some scriptures may have a broader application as you mention, but they may also have a limited sense of that application or even none at all. I would only go so far as to state a disciple needs to be very careful in that regard.
In my view here's a scripture of particular interest that presents the idea of "going beyond ('above' in some translations) that which is written".
1Cor 4:6 "I have applied all this to myself and Apol'los for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
Interestingly enough that verse is from a train of thought where the first century Church were also having problems with how to view their ministry.
Norbert
@Norbert--I am sorry, but I guess i am missing your point.
Anony Jon
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