In a September 15 member letter on the website of the Church of God a Worldwide Association (COGWA) Jim Franks announced several appointments to leadership positions.
The Ministerial Board of Directors (MBOD) approved Doug Horchak as operation manager for Ministerial Services and Clyde Kilough as operation manager for Media. Both of these men are members of the board, so they will have to resign from the MBOD to accept these positions. With Mr. Franks also having to resign from the board, this will create three vacancies out of the seven positions on the board. These will be filled by an election with all elders eligible to vote. The election will take place from September 19 through October 3. COGWA ministers will be receiving instructions.
The list of men who will be on the ballot was not announced in the member letter, but if I understand the governing documents correctly, the number of men on the ballot will be twice the number of positions to be selected by vote, so since three men are to be elected, there will be six men on the ballot. Those men will be the ministers who received the most votes in the last election to the board who were not elected to the board. In the last election, 7 men out of 14 candidates were selected, leaving 7 men who did not win election to the board. The six out of those seven who received the greatest number of votes will be on the ballot for election to fill the three vacancies.
The seven men on the last ballot who were not elected to the board are David Baker, Arnold Hampton, Mike Hanisko, Leslie McCullough, David Register, Larry Salyer, and Lyle Welty, so six of these men will be on the ballot, the one with the fewest votes not being on the ballot.
The board also approved the five members of the Doctrine Committee: John Foster, Bruce Gore, Don Henson, David Johnson, and Ralph Levy.
Members of the Moral and Ethics Assessment Committee (MEAC) are yet to be appointed, and Mr. Franks said that will probably not happen until after the Feast.
He also said that he expects the headquarters office to have a staff of about 8 to 12 people. Clyde Kilough, Dave Evans, Dave Johnson, and Jason Lovelady are members of a task force to study options for a headquarters location and are expected to present their recommendation to Mr. Franks within the next couple of months.
Below is a link to the letter:
http://members.cogwa.org/news/september-15-2011-member-letter/
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16 comments:
"With Mr. Franks also having to resign from the board, this will create three vacancies out of the seven positions on the board."
Author, I don't know about you but I am beginning to see God's involvment in this less and less all the time. when have you ever seen in Scripture an example of God not being able to make up His mind where He wants people?
This kind of reminds me of the booklet that Gerald Flurry said an angel revealed to him. It was later revised several times--so with that kind of situation, and people claiming God is guiding these events seems to be an insult to God's integrity and wisdom.
What are your thoughts on these procedings now?
Editor
Do I see God's hand in the selection of leaders in COGWA? I don't want to limit God. Christ has the authority and power to intervene as He chooses to direct events for the long-term good of the Church and its members. As COGWA ministers select their leaders, Christ may very well intervene to cause events to transpire in a way that will teach members and ministers of COGWA and all the Churches of God lessons we need to learn. But sometimes Christ can let things take their natural course so we see the consequences of our actions.
Whether or not Christ may guide certain events in COGWA or any other Church of God fellowship, I think the Bible is clear that using voting to select leaders in the Church of God is not the RIGHT way in God's sight.
When Church of God ministers choose to set up an institution in which ultimate authority rests in their own voting, it seems to me there is an element of distrust of God and self-will in their decision. They trust their own collective judgment to choose their leaders rather than trust Christ to appoint their leaders. Either that, or they feel sure that Christ will appoint the leaders and guide the voting to make His choice known. But there is no biblical example or precedence for this, nothing to indicate God authorizes voting to determine what HIS choice is. Rather, the examples in the Bible show that God makes known his choices by one or a combination of two things: annoucement from a higher authority and by the fruits over time.
Ministers and members who choose to submit to a system of voting perhaps do not consider the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matthew 13:24-30). This parable suggests, and recent history of the Church shows, not every baptized "member" attending Church of God services, and not every ordained minister, is converted. And this parable suggests that those who are not converted may be led by Satan to be among us. They may appear righteous, yet not be led by God's Spirit. Now, if 55% of the voting ministers are tares led by Satan and 45% are converted ministers led by God's Spirit, how do you think that would affect the voting and the selection of leaders?
Could Christ override the voting of the tares and orchestrate events to bring competent, righteous leaders into office? Of course He could. But if His objective is to teach us a lesson for eternity that government by voting does not work well, will He change the result or will He let the Church learn lessons the hard way?
Either way, I would rather support a fellowhip that already believes what God teaches us about government in the Bible.
Can you know by the fruits who the tares are among the ministers by the way they vote? No, the balloting is done in secret. You may see the long-term results, but you can't apply the test Christ described in Matthew 7:15-20. So if the leadership voted into office goes astray, you may know that the majority of the ministers made a bad decision, but you cannot know which ones. Christ intended that an individual's fruits over time be visible, and that can only work with top-down government, not balloting.
I do not know if Mr. Franks will be a good leader. I only know that if we are to live by every word of God, we will not place ourselves under the authority of the voting of men in the Church.
@author---"Either way, I would rather support a fellowhip that already believes what God teaches us about government in the Bible."
I would like to know which organization you feel that is, out of those who espouse top down governing?
Anony Jon
In my opinion, Living Church of God does a better job of preaching the gospel to the world, warning Israel, and feeding the flock than most other Church of God fellowships I am familiar with and they teach and practice top-down government. But no Church of God is perfect, as LCG will admit.
@Author; I tend to agree with you on LCG--however as you have stated; "But no Church of God is perfect, as LCG will admit".--I find it kind of ironic (& sad) that they will not admit that "Christ and His crucifixion for forgiveness of sins" is not the first priority and the Kingdom of God second---as their statement of beliefs indicate. I cannot find any reason for Mr. Meredith to be saying that the kingdom of God is "all about government" either, when it should be clear to all true Christians that God is building a Family--not a government. these are two things that could easily be corrected, but there seems to be an unwillingness to do so.
That said--it does not nulify all of the good points about them--but does cause some problems for many, as it has always been taught that the true COG would correct its mistakes.
The editor
LCG does do a good job of preaching the gospel to the world. The problem is they do it only as a witness, something Jesus never told us to do. Further, the Great Commission tells us to make disciples, something LCG has never stated as a goal. So, LCG is busy doing something Jesus never said to do and not doing what He did say to do. Further, LCG is giving a very poor witness. Look at RCM's sermon "What is Your Breaking Point" about 5 minutes in, where he says "We cannot speak out as strongly as we would like on issues like abortion and homosexuality." Is this crying aloud and sparing not? Is this providing warning this country needs? Or is RCM lacking faith? As to LCG's government, the problem is not that LCG has hierarchical govt, but that RCM deliberately twists the Bible in order to deceive people into giving him more power than the Bible authorizes. He goes way beyond what HWA ever taught. So, I disagree with the previous comment on all 3 areas.
I just read LCG's statement of beliefs and I find nothing that indicates they think Christ and His sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins has higher priority than the Kingdom of God, or vice-versa. In one place they mention the Kingdom of God first and Jesus Christ second and in another place in the same page they mention Christ first and the Kingdom of God second. It doesn't matter which is listed first - they are both important. LCG teaches the forgiveness or sins and salvation through Jesus Christ and the good news of the coming Kingdom of God. Both are important, because without the Kingdom of God, there would be no good news, and without salvation through Jesus Christ we would not be able to enter the Kingdom of God so it would not be good news for us. They also deliver the Ezekiel warning to Israel, which is part of the gospel.
They also both preach the gospel as a witness and make disciples. Whether or not LCG states the making of disciples as a goal, they certainly carry out that responsibility. To the best of my knowledge, Living Church of God has made more disciples from their work of preaching the gospel to the public than any other large Church of God group.
That is an interesting point about LCG speaking out about homosexuality and abortion. If I recall correctly, Mr. Wally Smith in his first broadcast spoke out about both, and WGN refused to air it. It does no good to speak out to the four walls of the recording studio if it is not broadcast to the nation. Also, I recall an incident with Mr. Armstrong about a sermon he wanted to broadcast about abortion. I do not remember the details, but there was an announcement that it was so strong that it could not be sent out to the stations or the broadcast would end right there, something like that. So even Mr. Armstrong took into consideration the effect certain strong material could have in hurting the work when he made decisions. When he met with and spoke to world leaders, he was very circumspect and was careful not to offend unnecessarily. He did not chastise them for their faults, but he spoke about man's inability to solve his problems and the necessity for God to intervene and that God would intervene.
But I think there will come a time when LCG or some other Church of God group will speak out so strongly that we will be shut down, but by then the message will have gone out to everyone and everyone will have heard it. We are not at that point yet. LCG only reaches a small portion of the American people, maybe less than 1%, just using the United States as an example. If the broadcast is ended because stations refuse to carry it, the 99% who have not heard any message will not hear it before the tribulation, not that way anyway.
I don't think it is a matter of speaking softly to avoid persecution on the Church or the ministry and speakers. I think it is a matter of delivering the strongest message TV stations are willing to broadcast.
@author;"I just read LCG's statement of beliefs and I find nothing that indicates they think Christ and His sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins has higher priority than the Kingdom of God, or vice-versa."
Let me see if I am understanding you correctly. are you saying you believe this is correct; "The Gospel of Christ is the "Good News" of the forgiveness of our sins through Christ’s sacrifice"---and if so where do you find in Scripture that this is the Gosepl of Jesus Christ Himself?
@ anonymous; "LCG does do a good job of preaching the gospel to the world. The problem is they do it only as a witness, something Jesus never told us to do." I agree with them doing a good job of preaching the Gospel, but your comment about "US" not being told to do this kind of threw me. What do think Matt.24:14 means if it is not a commission for the COG to be doing this in the end time? How do you think they would be able to make disciples if they did not preach the Gospel as a witness? Matt.28:19-20, in my opinion is doing both.
The Editor
Matthew 24:14 is ABSOLUTELY NOT a commission to the church. Read it. It is a prophecy. A prophecy that will definitely be fulfilled by the angel in Rev 14:6 and probably by the 2 witnesses. Yes, we are to preach the gospel, but why? As a witness to the world? NO! As Mark's Great Commission says, with the purpose of making believers, baptizing them, that they might be saved. To just throw the seed out there and expect God to do the rest is contrary to John 6:28-29, Matthew's Great Commission, and Paul's obsession in 1 Cor 9:19-22. I challenge anyone to find one smidgen of evidence that Rod Meredith has even the slightest intent to do any part of Matthew's Great Commission. And don't give me LCG's mission statement to teach those that God sends them. Matthew says to teach those that you went and got.
MTCOGSM: In quoting LCG's statement of beliefs, "The Gospel of Christ is the 'Good News' of the forgiveness of our sins through Christ’s sacrifice", you left out the rest of their sentence: ", and of the soon-coming Kingdom and government of God." And yes, I agree with that, both the first part of the sentence and the second part. The true gospel IS the good news of the forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice AND it is the good news of the coming government of God. The gospel includes both, and it is as wrong to leave one out as the other. As I point out in my book, without the forgiveness of sins, it would not be possible for us to enter the Kingdom of God, so it would not be good news for us or for any human who has sinned, which includes all of humanity.
If you are looking for Bible proof that the true gospel, the gospel that Jesus Christ preached, includes the forgiveness of sins through His sacrifice, check out these verses: Acts 20:24 shows that the "grace of God" is part of the gospel. "Grace" means unmerited gift or pardon, and this definitely includes the forgiveness of sins made possible by Christ's sacrifice. Ephesians 1:13 calls the gospel "the gospel of your salvation" - this is a direct reference to salvation through Jesus Christ made possible by the forgiveness of sins through His sacrifice. Also see 1 Corinthians 15:1-5 where Paul said, referring to the gospel he preached to the Corinthians, that he first of all taught them that Christ died for our sins. And these references to the gospel are referring to the same gospel that includes the good news of the coming Kingdom of God because there is only ONE TRUE GOSPEL (Galatians 1:8). These are not separate gospels. See also 1 Corinthians 2:1-2.
The true gospel is really the whole message of the Bible, the whole package, everything, the law of God, salvation through Christ, who Christ is and His role, what He has done, is doing, and will do, all the prophecies of the Bible, the history of what God has done to prepare for that kingdom - EVERYTHING. It is all part of the gospel because every bit of it is in preparation for and is about the Kingdom of God.
See my section "The Gospel of the Kingdom of God" in chapter 2 of my book. Link:
http://www.ptgbook.org/gospel.htm#king
Anonymous: Whether you call Matthew 24:14 a "commission" or not, it is something we have to do because it is God's will. We are to love God with all our heart and follow the example of Christ, and Christ said it was his food to do God's will (John 4:34). Matthew 24:14 shows that it is God's will that the gospel go to the world as a witness to all nations. There are examples of Christ actually making sure that prophecy was fulfilled according to God's will - see Matthew 26:52-54, John 19:28, and John 13:18. Likewise, we should know that it is God's will, based on Matthew 24:14, that the gospel should go to all nations as a witness, and knowing it is God's will, we should diligently do our part to fulfill God's will as He gives us the power and the open door to do it.
See section "Is the Church Commissioned to Preach the Gospel to the World?" in chapter 5 of my book, link:
http://www.ptgbook.org/feedtheflock.htm#commission
It is necessary for United States and other nations about to go through the tribulation to hear a warning first, BEFORE the beginning of the tribulation and the work of the two witnesses, so they know that God was fair to warn them while they have time to escape, not afterwards when they are IN the tribulation and there is nothing they can do about it.
See chapter 4 in my book on lessons of the Holocaust, link:
http://www.ptgbook.org/preachthegospel.htm
As for evidence that LCG is fulfilling the commission to make disciples, the evidence is the number of baptisms and new people coming in as a result of the broadcast. The evidence is the Bible correspondence course they publish which is designed to teach prospect members and prepare them to come into the Church. The evidence is the follow-up they do to respond to prospective members who call or write in for a minister to visit them. The evidence is the public Bible lectures they give to help people know about their local congregations to encourage those God is calling to attend services.
How can you preach the gospel as a witness and NOT make disciples? The only way I know that a Church of God could do that is to preach the gospel but fail to provide follow-up services for those who respond. LCG has not failed in that. The work they are doing to preach the gospel is exactly the same work you have to do to be a witness and to make disciples - it accomplishes both.
@author; Dear sir, it was my intent to ask the question I did exactly as I did--in the hope that you would focus on the question itself; "The Gospel of Christ is the "Good News" of the forgiveness of our sins through Christ’s sacrifice"---and if so where do you find in Scripture that this is the Gosepl of Jesus Christ Himself?"
I KNOW I left off the rest of the sentence, as it did not pertain to the question. Instead of answering my question, you went the typical route that so many others do and never answered the question. If you have visited www.mtcogsm.com, my website, you will know that we are in agreement on almost every Scripture you sited about the Gospel. But your answer; "And yes, I agree with that, both the first part of the sentence and the second part. The true gospel IS the good news of the forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice AND it is the good news of the coming government of God." This did not really answer the question nor did it point me to any Scripture that shows CHRIST HIMSELF in His 3 1/2 year ministry publically preached as HIS GOSPEL His crucifixion for forgiveness of sins, nor did He send anyone else out with that message. That would have been impossible since it had not yet happened! I am sorry to have bothered you with the question, because it is obvious you have not noticed that LCG's statement of beliefs has reversed the order in that statement---putting something first that was not first, nor is it found that way in Scripture.
The Editor
MTCOGSM: I might see your point.
This time I will just focus on the sentence the way you have quoted it.
Do I believe this sentence is correct?: "The Gospel of Christ is the 'Good News' of the forgiveness of our sins through Christ’s sacrifice." My short answer is, no I do not believe that statement is correct.
I want to explain why I do not think it is correct. It is not correct because it is incomplete and therefore misleading. The true gospel includes the forgiveness of our sins through the sacrifice of Christ, but it is much more than that.
But in the context from which it is taken, when you include the rest of the sentence, it becomes complete and therefore correct. So while the second half of the sentence did not seem to you to pertain to the question, to me it pertains very much to the answer I give. Without the second half of the sentence, I disagree with the first half alone. With both halves of the sentence, I agree with both halves.
There is no single passage I know of that says that Christ Himself preached the good news of the forgiveness of sin through His sacrifice. But when you put many passages of the Bible together, it becomes evident that He must have preached that. There is only one true gospel. The disciples preached the forgiveness of sins as part of that gospel. They must have learned it from Christ - what other source would they have? So yes, Jesus Christ preached the good news of the forgiveness of sins through His sacrifice. Not necessarily in those words, but He taught that truth nevertheless. That doesn't mean that the crowds understood Him any more than they understood other aspects of the Kingdom of God. Most of them were not called to understand - that is why Christ spoke in parables. Even His disciples did not understand everything until Christ was resurrected.
LCG in their statement may well have put stated these truths in a different sequence than the sequence in which they were revealed during Christ's ministry. Is that wrong, and why?
Dear Author,
I appreciate your willingness to back off and take a second look at this. Sometimes we see things that we do not focus on when we are open enough to look at it from a different perspective. I have tried to do this with this statement for years, but have not found a legitimate way to honestly do so. You have acknowledged that the statement in and of itself is not correct, however you did say this; “But in the context from which it is taken, when you include the rest of the sentence, it becomes complete and therefore correct.” (and I am sure you know what this is referring to without me repeating the whole thing) I personally would not agree that the statement “as is” really is correct, if Christ’s Gospel did not include that. After making that statement above though, you also still seem open to the possibility of there being more to this, by this closing statement and question.
“LCG in their statement may well have put stated these truths in a different sequence than the sequence in which they were revealed during Christ's ministry. Is that wrong, and why?”
Yes they very easily could have written it differently, that would have also been solidly based on Scriptural revelation, but they chose not to do that. Even if Christ mentioned His death a few times during His ministry, (which He did—and you seem to acknowledge they did not even understand) I personally do not see how that could be considered the Gospel in and of itself and it would certainly not have equal or greater standing than the KINGDOM of GOD, which the Father sent Him to preach. There is a lot more I could say here, but you have a book on the subject and should know the fact is very clear that no one was sent out by Him to preach such a message of the crucifixion for forgiveness of sins while he was in the flesh and Christ Himself made very clear that those two messages had different start points and time frames—to now say they are one and the same is blending Scriptures that very possibly were not intended to be blended together, so I will leave it to you to answer your own question—based on Scriptural facts and not conjecture or assumption. The statement could have been;
The Gospel
“The Gospel of Jesus Christ was the “GOOD NEWS” of the coming kingdom of God. Christ gave Himself in total sacrifice to preach that truth and then be crucified for the remission of sins. The apostles preached the name (Authority and power) of Christ along with the Gospel of the kingdom.” (adding appropriate Scriptures.)
Now I will leave you with a couple of questions. Would it have any less impact and would any COG member question it if it were worded that way?
Have you read my booklet on the "Truth of the Gospel"?
The Editor
Hello Editor, and thank you for your reply.
I'll start by answering my own question, as you said. I am basing this on the example of Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-8. He starts by reminding the Corinthians of the gospel he preached to them. Then, still speaking in the same context of the gospel he preached to them, he said, "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve". Doesn't this seem to be saying that the truth that Christ died for our sins and was resurrected was the FIRST thing he taught the Corinthians (notice he says "first of all") when he preached the gospel to them? Notice also that the word at the beginning of the quote "for" indicates a connection with the statement in verses 1-2 that he preached the gospel to them. So this was part of the gospel, and it was the first part that Paul taught them, not other aspects of the Kingdom of God.
Earlier in the same book, Paul said, "And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified" (1 Corinthians 2:1-2). Paul said he was "determined" - this was a decision he made - to focus on the sacrifice of Christ, apparently as the first thing he taught them.
This, even though Christ first preached other aspects of the gospel of the Kingdom of God before His death and probably before He taught the disciples the meaning of His sacrifice. So even though the sequence of Christ's teaching may have been: first, preach on the Kingdom of God, then second teach about salvation through His sacrifice, it looks like Paul reversed the order and taught the Corinthians about Christ's sacrifice before he taught them about the Kingdom of God.
So if salvation through Christ was the first part of the gospel Paul taught the Corinthians, I have no choice but to conclude that Living Church of God is not wrong to mention the sacrifice of Christ first and the Kingdom of God second in their statement about the gospel.
To answer your question about the way you worded the definition of the gospel, "Would it have any less impact and would any COG member question it if it were worded that way?" I can only answer, I don't know. Maybe the way you worded it is better, maybe it isn't. I am only saying that the way LCG worded it is not wrong, incorrect, or sinful.
I also do not think that the fact that they mentioned forgiveness of sins through Christ's sacrifice first in a compound sentence with the Kingdom of God means they are giving forgiveness of sins higher priority in their preaching and teaching. I have not done this, but I would bet that if you or I were to go through all LCG's literature and look at all their TV broadcasts and add up the text for each subject, we would find that they spend much more time and effort teaching about the coming Kingdom of God to bring happiness and peace all over the earth when Christ returns than they spend teaching about forgiveness of sins through the sacrifice of Christ.
Have I read your booklet? Yes. I read it on the MTCOGSM website. I found it very interesting, and as you point out, we agree on almost everything.
@ Author.
Your comments are seasoned and kind.
As I am about to leave for the FoT,
I will pick up on this afterwards. I believe we are both of the same mind and Spirit, but have a view of certain things thru different perspectives, and perhaps because of different experiences.
I look forward to chatting again after the Feast.
the Editor
OH, and BTW--I do believe that LCG does a very good job, has the right governing structure and I support there work. That does not mean however, that I agree with every facet of what they do or say. They also have a few ministers that can get way out of line at times.
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