Less than a year ago, a split began in United Church of God. That split is generally complete. A little more than half of the full-time paid pastors in UCG and less than half of all UCG ministers (including local elders) have left UCG and formed Church of God a Worldwide Association. Preliminary indications are that about 40% of UCG's membership (or less) have begun attending COGWA, and that may grow in time. Thus the split seems to be about right down the middle. This is not a case of a small splinter group leaving UCG.
Why did this split occur?
At one time we were together in one fellowship. Most of us in the Churches of God, especially older members, were together in Worldwide Church of God when Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong was alive. Then we were split and divided into many Church of God groups after Mr. Armstrong died.
It is easy to look back and understand the immediate cause of that first split. Worldwide was split over doctrine. Those who were leading Worldwide in the decade after Mr. Armstrong's death, Joseph Tkach Sr., Joseph Tkach Jr., Michael Feazell, Greg Albrecht, and others, led that organization and those who were willing to follow them into traditional Protestant doctrines. Those who wanted to retain the older teachings of Worldwide, for whatever the reason (personal tradition and habit, family and friends connections, loyalty to Mr. Armstrong, or faith in God's word, the Bible), left and formed or joined many Church of God fellowships, including many of the main organizations that exist today.
Doctrine was the obvious direct cause of the splitting and scattering of ministers and members in Worldwide from 1987 through 1995.
But what was the cause of the split of UCG in 2010-2011? Is the reason so obvious?
If you had to sum it up to an interested outsider in just one or a few sentences, what would you say?
If your co-worker at the office in the cubicle next to you overheard a phone conversation you had with a Church member, or if a neighbor overheard you talking with your wife in the backyard about the split, or someone not knowledgeable about what happened asked you, "Did your church split?", and "Why did they split?", how would you explain it?
During the time the split was developing, I had assumed that there must be some hidden agenda of one side or another or a cause that was driving the split, something that was known to the ministry but carefully hidden from the membership and outsiders. I thought that before the split was complete the hidden agenda or cause would become clearly known. Well, if there is something like that, it has not become clearly known, not to me, except vaguely, like one can see part way through a fog. There may be hints and clues here and there that need to be interpreted, but nothing as clear and obvious as the cause of the break-up of Worldwide 1987-1995.
There can certainly be more than one cause or force driving the UCG split.
It is important to try to understand because we should learn the lessons God wants us to learn from what we go through in this life. We should learn not to repeat mistakes. We should ask ourselves why this happened and seek wisdom about this. This is also appropriate as we approach the Passover and the Days of Unleavened Bread. This is a season for self-examination and repentance. We should seek to understand why this occurred because if mistakes were made, we need to learn from them, to repent as needed, and to avoid those mistakes in the future.
What do you think were the primary causes of the split?
Opinions among bloggers, writers, and ministers who have written and spoken about this vary.
Bob Thiel (COGwriter) in the Church of God News blog has said that he felt that vanity, ego, and personality conflict have been strong forces driving this split.
James Malm in Shining Light blog has taught that one of the driving forces has been doctrine. He believes that the leaders of UCG want to liberalize and water-down doctrine and/or obedience to God's commandments, and that those ministers leaving UCG to go to COGWA want to set up a hierarchical governance system based on the WCG/LCG model, and that the seeds of this split were in UCG from the beginning of its formation. This seems to coincide with the view of Dixon Cartwright of the Journal who seems to feel that one side (UCG) wants to move away from the influence of Mr. Armstrong and the other side (COGWA) wants to retain the influence of Mr. Armstrong.
Joel Meeker in his letter in the UCG Current Crisis site may represent the view of many ministers leaving UCG. He states that the present UCG leadership has not only shown a pattern of repeated violations of the rules of UCG that the entire ministry had agreed to follow when UCG was set up, but that they have also repeatedly violated God's law in their actions, and that these violations have destroyed the trust that is necessary for effective cooperation as well as the legitimacy of the authority of UCG's leaders, to the point that the ministers leaving UCG cannot support those violations of the law of God and UCG rules. He feels that is it spiritually dangerous to continue to follow leaders who show a pattern of lawlessness in their administration. This may explain why some ministers felt they had to leave, but it does not explain WHY the split occurred. If it is true that UCG leaders violated laws, WHY did they violate laws? If they mistreated certain ministers, WHY did they mistreat those ministers? They did not mistreat their own allies in this controversy. It was all part of HOW the split occurred, but is not an explanation for WHY the split occurred.
Those may indeed be contributing reasons, but I have long maintained that a primary driving force for division is the form or structure of governance that UCG adopted since its formation. That form of governance, governance by the authority of the ballot-box, is a recipe for division and strife. It magnifies small differences of opinion that could otherwise be reconciled or lived with peacefully. It tends to encourage politics and the taking of sides in a controversy. It can take a small cause and magnify it till it splits an organization.
The voting process creates an arena for ministers to battle it out with the ballot box, to fight for their ideas, to try to help their side win, which is directly contrary to the spirit of Proverbs 17:13. Ministers feel a responsibility to vote wisely and to offer wise and helpful counsel to others who vote and who want to practice the principle of seeking a multitude of counsel before making an important decision (Proverbs 11:14). They feel a responsibility to seek wise counsel in how to vote and to "get all the facts". The voting process also sets up a state of mind that tells the ministry that the leaders are responsible to them. So some advise the voting for or against this or that, and that magnifies and intensifies differences and tends to line people up in opposite camps.
But the worst and most insidious effect of ballot-box governance is that it can motivate those who have been elected to leadership positions to get rid of potential opposition voters before the next election so they can stay in office.
Imagine if President Obama had the authority to drive out citizens of the United States who disagree with him or to remove their voting rights before the next election. Would he use that power? Would any president?
I think that at some point many or most of the members of the Council of Elders wanted those who disagreed with them, who are the ones with the authority to vote them out of office, to just leave. In other words, if you don't agree with us, leave. Leave peacefully if possible, but leave. Don't stay in UCG and vote against us and vote us out of power. Just get out. We will help you to leave and give you a push.
That is a direct effect of ballot-box governance, because the voting process creates the fear that those who disagree will vote against those in office. Those in office do not want that. They do not want to be voted out or voted against.
Desire for power may be a motive here, but not even that necessarily. The motive can be a sincere motive to protect what are thought to be right policies and decisions. UCG council members may want to stay in office because they believe their leadership, policies, and decisions are right and good for UCG. Only God can read minds and know if the leadership wants to stay in power for their own personal desire for power and money or because they think it is best for the Church.
But either way, making leaders subject to being voted out of office by those under their authority can be a motive for those leaders to use their authority to push opposition voters out of the organization. And I think this has been a big contributing cause for the split. Without ballot-box governance, there would still be differences of opinion, but they could better be managed and reconciled without a full-blown split.
Look at the history of how this split started.
It started with an accusation of wrong-doing against Leon Walker for giving information and advise about voting. That in turn led to his being fired by the Council, and that led to the removal of many Latin American ministers who supported him.
It all started with an email about voting.
There was also an issue about the Sabbath doctrine. That issue was magnified with a document published by UCG leadership that "stirred the pot" and created concern on the part of many ministers and members because it implied that it was ok under certain circumstances for a Church member to employ people to work on part of a sabbath day. That paper became a divisive influence, and I think UCG leaders knew that it would be. Members went to their pastors about it and pastors often had to take a stand one way or another. UCG leadership later clarified their position on that issue, stating that it is NOT ok to employ someone to work on a sabbath day, but they only issued that clarification AFTER the split had passed the point of no return. It certainly gives the appearance that UCG leaders intended that paper to create division so they could separate out those ministers who were not deeply committed to supporting the UCG leadership no matter what. If that was their purpose, they succeeded.
So here is a recipe for division.
Start with differences of opinion on a variety of issues. These could include how much money to allocate to preaching the gospel, relocating headquarters, cooperation with another Church of God fellowship, interpretation of the law of the Sabbath, details of governance, etc. People might line up in a variety of ways in these issues where some who are on the same side on one issue would be on different sides on another issue. It would be a real mix, not necessarily two well-defined sides. This creates an environment for growth of division, but not yet - other things are needed. It is like a bread mix with flour, water, sugar, salt, but without the yeast.
So add personal ego and animosities. These are like seeds that can grow, or like yeast in bread.
But yeast doesn't grow very fast in a cool environment. So add a structure of governance with elections every year to turn up the heat. Then the personal animosities can grow, feeding on differences of opinion. The structure of governance then accelerates the division. Small things become big. Towards the end, the division can be deliberately maximized by those in power in order to sway future voting results in their favor.
Look at how small this started. Leon Walker shared some facts and views in an email with some Latin American ministers about how they might vote in an upcoming election. Then he did not cancel a trip to meet at headquarters when he had already met with headquarters' representatives and was willing to meet again after his trip. So for the sake of a delay in meeting with Mr. Walker of perhaps a few weeks, UCG leaders split the whole Church of God organization right down the middle.
I don't think small things like this would be so magnified without a process of balloting.
I am sure there is not just one cause for this division and split. Nor is there just one leader on either side. Many people are involved on both sides. Even one person can have many reasons for taking one course of action or another, and the reasons and causes for what happened multiply with many individuals making decisions for many reasons.
Since most ministers in COGWA elected to resign from UCG, they face the responsibility of explaining to their members why they had to resign, and collectively, those individual explanations may help paint a picture of a cause of the split, at least from the point of view of those ministers.
Doctrine is probably part of it. Even if the purpose of the sabbath paper was not to change doctrine at this time but to put pressure on some ministers to leave UCG, that tactic would not work if there was not a difference in doctrinal views between the two camps. And probably personal ego, vanity, and selfishness played some part. We all have human nature.
There was a difference of opinion regarding a move of headquarters to Texas, and there may be a difference of opinion regarding the relationship with Living Church of God. Prior to the proposal to move to the Dallas area, Clyde Kilough and Jim Franks, UCG leaders who held office at that time, had visited Living Church of God headquarters and met with Roderick Meredith, Richard Ames, and other LCG leaders in late 2006. Mr. Kilough and Mr. Franks are now with COGWA.
But I believe a large, contributing cause of the split was democracy in action, democracy of such a form and structure that it enabled small differences of opinion to be magnified and to become a catalyst for a struggle for power that split the organization right down the middle.
There is an irony in that the justification for using balloting to govern the Church is that it is an implementation of the scripture that says, "Where there is no counsel, the people fall; But in the multitude of counselors there is safety" (Proverbs 11:14). Did government by voting provide "safety" in this case? Did UCG leadership behave as if they were receiving and following a multitude of wise counsel?
It appears that the whole system of UCG's governance has failed. This split is the proof. Splits usually occur because of an important issue. This split apparently occurred because of NO clear, outstanding issue. That is the big news.
There is no outstanding issue, as there was in Worldwide in 1995, which can be clearly identified as the cause of the split. The Sabbath paper was a minor issue. The doctrine has not been changed. Whether the UCG leadership intends to change the Sabbath doctrine in the future, the fact is they have not changed it so far. The move to Dallas is minor. Who cares where headquarters is located? The mistreatment of some ministers is not the issue. The division was the CAUSE of the mistreatment, not the other way around.
Members could understand in 1995. I do not think they understand today. To the membership, it must look like their ministers simply could not get along with each other. The members seem to set a better example of Christian tolerance and fellowship than some of the ministers. Yet the members must suffer because of the division. And if there is no clear cause, how can COGWA start in an atmosphere of enthusiasm for the future?
In 1998 Global Church of God was split because of disagreement between Mr. Roderick Meredith and board members Larry Salyer and Raymond McNair. Mr. Salyer and Mr. McNair gained control of the corporation and its assets and copyrights. But 75-80% of the ministry and membership stayed with Mr. Meredith and they formed Living Church of God. I remember that at the time I thought that Mr. Salyer and Mr. McNair were simply unable to give any good reason for separating from Mr. Meredith. And it may have been the lack of a clear and understandable reason for the separation that contributed to the lack of credibility of Mr. Salyer and Mr. McNair with about 80% of the membership.
UCG was formed in 1995 by ministers coming out of Worldwide Church of God over doctrinal differences. At that time, they chose the name "United Church of God" and they chose a form of governance based on the authority of decisions made by balloting, a structure of governance they hoped would prevent a repeat of the split that had occurred in Worldwide. But that form of governance did not prevent a split, and the church governed by that structure has not lived up to its name. It has undergone two major splits, one with David Hulme in 1998 and now a greater split with the ministers who have formed COGWA. I think the evidence shows that the ballot-box structure of governance chosen for UCG has been a major contributing cause of the latest split.
I have added a few blogs to my Church of God Blogs site (see sidebar for link at left). John Carmack's "Church of God Perspective" blog is back up and running. It was down for a while as he switched from Blogger to Wordpress.
More to come...
Here are links to related sections in Preaching the Gospel:
A Brief History of the Scattering of the Church, Chapter 5
Government in the Church, Chapter 5
Following the Bible -- Pattern of Government, Chapter 6
Church Government, Chapter 7
How Is the Church Organized?, Chapter 7
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17 comments:
Ever wondered why churches of God have history of splits,schisms, splinters, shards + offshoots etc? Leaders, ministry seem to be the instigators, promoters + engineers of splits.I noticed {18 years WCG] the lack of brotherly love, love of money/materialism extant in that cult.These splits seem to me, the "fruits" + results of the "seeds" sown by these CoG groups. By their fruits they, we, you + I are known: bingo!
If a married couple gets divorced, are both the man and woman at fault? Always? Is it sometimes just one partner who is at fault and the other is innocent? Is that possible?
God was married to ancient Israel, then divorced Israel (Jeremiah 3:6). This was a "split" between God and Israel. Was God at fault?
In the first century Church of God, there were contentions and divisions, and some left the Church, and some false ministers and brethren put faithful brethren out of the church (1 Corinthians 11:17-19, 1 John 2:18-19, 3 John 9-10). There was contention, for a time, between Paul and Barnabas, though later that contention was healed (Acts 15:37-40, 2 Timothy 4:11). Christ prophesied there would be tares (Matthew 13:24-30, 37-43), and the implication is that there would be unconverted people among converted members in the Church. Moreover, Christ rebukes five of the seven churches in Revelation chapters two and three for their faults, yet they are part of the true Church of God (Revelation chapters 1 through 3). Christ also says of the Laodiceans, representing the last era of the Church of God in our time, that He will spit (or vomit) them out of His mouth. Yet He also tells them to repent and that He punishes those whom He loves, so they are still part of His true Church (Revelation 3:14-22).
But God is faithful, and His word, the Bible, is still true despite the imperfections of men and women, even in the Church of God. "Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4).
There are many ministers at fault for the current scattered condition of the Church of God, and God will judge every minister for his works. But I cannot assume that every minister is at fault and to blame for the splits.
You call the old Worldwide a "cult", and I assume from your use of that term that you do not agree with the old Worldwide Church of God doctrines.
If Worldwide taught doctrines contrary to the Bible, then don't believe them, but whatever you find in the Bible, believe, if you are willing to take the time and be honest with yourself to prove that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and if you choose to trust and believe the God who created you.
What you need to understand is that faith is a personal relationship you have with God and not a loyalty to any group of men. The church of Christ is a spiritual entity, not a literal fellowship of people. So fellowship with like minded people and encourage one another in the faith but always keep in mind that your leader is Christ and not a human leader or group of people. Christ will not fail you...men will. That is the lesson to learn as a 28 year member of WCoG
- s.wenchel
My apologies, s.wenchel, but I deleted your comment by mistake and have reproduced it above as best I could from my email backup. Yes, you are right. Our primary loyalty must be towards God, not any organization of man, not even a Church of God fellowship.
I also think our loyalty to God should motivate us to seek a Church of God fellowship we can support, if possible, and if we find such a fellowship, we should support it with whatever means God makes available to us to help finish God's work of preaching the gospel to the world as a witness, feeding the flock, and getting the Ezekiel warning to the nations that will go through the tribulation.
i started studying the bible and found that none of the churchs followed what the bible taught but armstrong came closer than most other churches at that time since then some of the massianic churches are closer you must know the old to understand the new testiments god is a covenent keeper you can trust him for he never breaks a covenent churches teaching change but gods teachings do not
Back in the 80's, I remember watching Jerry Falwell preaching. Mr Falwell said all you need is to invite Christ into your life and Christ will do the rest. Since that traumatic Sunday worship session at a Church of Christ congregation with members jumping up and down and screaming, " I love you, Jesus. Praise the Lord, Hallelujah", I thought to follow Mr Falwell and I prayed for Jesus Christ to come into my life to guide me into my adult life.
One day, I was at my college library, searching for materials for my Economics Term paper about the countries and trending economies of Europe. At the lobby, a magazine cover story caught my interest. It was the Plain Truth magazine and the story about the upcoming unification of Europe. From that day, I was hooked to reading and requesting the WWCG publications and watched Mr Armstrong's tv broadcasts. I remember praying on my knees and how happy I was and how thankful I was that God brought me to America, so I can be connected to God's true church. I even told God that I knew it all along, that my mother's protestant church is not the true church. The WWCG split in the 90's proved that some members were not really called into God's church. They just needed a place to belong. I managed to contact the minister who baptised me and found out that he joined UCG. I picked up UCG in the East Coast. Then one Sabbath, after taking a 3 month vacation overseas, I received an email from my local minister to inform me that the location of the service was moved. I thought UCG's lease at the current service site was not allowed to renew. I scrambled to contact some fellow members and elders. Then I found out what is happening but nobody can explain Why. I felt abandoned and orphaned once again. So, I joined bible studies with those Jehovah Witnesses and after 3 years of bible studies and church services, they want me to wrap things up and be baptised into their organization. Although Jehovah Witness are normal people: church properties and work orders are donated by its members, their pastors and ministers are not on Salary; however, I cannot go back to Sunday worship. The Witnesses explained to me that Jehovah Witness does not worship God on a specific day. In fact, a Kingdom Hall will have multiple services that can start from Thursday to Sunday. They asked me why I cling to UCG. I replied because I believe my church is God's True Church. They replied back and said, "If UCG is the True Church, why then it exists in disharmony, while Christ declared that his church will not be broken as Christ is the foundation of his church". I cannot offer a rebuttal, as I asked the same question. Jehovah Witnesses org is a good alternative for spiritual food, and I would join their organization over any confused, politically charged, and divided UCG congregations. So, since my church is a Big Mess and locations of services is getting farther and farther away, I do not worry about being a member anymore. Organizations are created to serve as a magnetic field as well as a feeding ground for its members. A chaotic and disorganized organization is a useless organization. Therefore, I no longer feel giving my Tithes to anybody. I give money to the homeless whom I see along our streets. I am not worried about not being part of the first resurrection. I used to get so excited with the thought of being chosen as a Trainee to partake in the Millenium, as an employee of Christ. Now, only God the Father can decide whether Christ can use people like me to do a very important job, in the Millenium. No more church. No more church politics. No more coming home to find your church had split.
No more following leaders that lead its members astray.
Thank you for your comment. Forgive me for taking a long time to reply.
I also learned about Mr. Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God through the Plain Truth magazine. I began requesting and reading Mr. Armstrong's literature in the late 1960's. I was baptized and began attending Worldwide Church of God in the early 1980's.
But before I was baptized, I was careful to prove the things I was learning from the Bible. I first proved that the Bible was inspired by God. I did this with fulfilled prophecy. Then I proved the major doctrines. By the time I was baptized I had no doubt about God's true Church and its doctrines.
I agree that the WWCG split in the 1990's showed that some members were not really called and converted. During that split, those members that stayed with the true doctrines went into several organizations. UCG was one. Global Church of God (which later became Living Church of God) was another.
I left WWCG to go with UCG for a couple of years. Then I went to Global/Living because they practiced Bible doctrine in the matter of church governance. Mr. Armstrong understood and practiced government from the top down in the Church. The head of the Church is Jesus Christ, and he appoints the human leaders He chooses and makes His choice known by the fruits, not by the voting of ministers. That was also the way it was with Dr. Meredith and Global/Living. So I went with them.
Why did UCG split? Apparently some of the ministers want to keep the old doctrines and some want to go part way or more into Protestant doctrines the way WWCG did. And because they use voting there was politicing and in-fighting that resulted in the split.
I am glad you keep the Sabbath and do not go back to Sunday-keeping. But I am surprised you spent time with Jehovah's Witnesses instead of going to Global/Living or to one of the other Church of God groups.
In 1998 there was a split in Global with about 20% of the ministry and members staying with Global and about 75% re-organizing with a new name, Living Church of God. It was the brethren that stayed in Global who rebelled against Dr. Meredith, and it was those who stayed with Dr. Meredith and formed Living Church of God (LCG) who remained faithful to top-down government under Jesus Christ.
At the top of the right side-bar in this blog is a link to my online website and book, Preaching the Gospel. In chapter 8 I explain why right government in the Church of God is from the top down, not by the voting of men.
Why is there disunity in the Church of God? Basically, the majority of the ministers and members are not zealous to live by every word of God (Matthew 4:4). We are in the Laodicean era of the Church, a time when the predominant attitude and characteristic is lukewarmness. "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth" (Revelation 3:15-16). There are also many tares in the Church - so-called "members" who have been baptized and attend with us as members but are not really converted (Matthew 13:24-30). As a result, the Church has had little resistance to Satan's efforts to create division and disunity. God allows this to show the Church that we have problems that need correcting.
God wants unity, but unity on His terms.
So the answer to your Jehovah Witnesses friends as to why, if UCG is the true Church, they have division, is, the majority in UCG are NOT really the true Church that is zealous for the things of God. Many or most of those who attend UCG may be unconverted tares, and those who are converted are evidently spiritually weak and lukewarm and in need of correction and rebuke from Christ. That correction and rebuke can come in the form of division.
Their lukewarmness for the things of God is evident in the fact they they chose their leaders by the voting of the ministry, contrary to the teachings of the Bible.
Many other Church of God fellowships also have serious problems.
You say that you do not feel like giving your tithe to anyone. But it is not your tithe, it is God's tithe, and He gives it to His ministry for His work, not the homeless.
There is a great need to get out the gospel and the warning message of the great tribulation to come if our nations do not repent of their sins. They need this warning more than the homeless need money. Must of my book, Preaching the Gospel, makes it clear why this warning message is needed. The tithes we give to a faithful Church of God fellowship that is doing that work of preaching and warning the public is the greatest act of love towards our neighbors we can do.
You say you do not care about being in the first resurrection? Do you also not care about being in the lake of fire?
You may not have a choice. You are responsible for what you know. If God has called you and opened your mind to the truth, He may punish you severely if you do not act upon it.
As for myself, I send my part of God's tithe to Living Church of God. I think they are doing the best job of doing God's work of all the Church of God fellowships.
From the Philippines
- I am somewhat curious of your (msgs,blogs,letters) whatever, I got involved w/ WCoG in 1984 as a college student in Q.C. Got baptized and ended up leaving WCoG sometime in 1996, I stayed my course as Christ disciple having joined niether group. As "unchurch" CHRISTIAN, I became a local radio announcer maintaining beliefs from the WCoG till I got contact w/ UCG.
Like you, we are followers of Jesus and NOT of men whether in authority or no longer in authority.
REMAINING A SON OR A DAUGHTER OF GOD DOING WHAT JESUS TOLD US TO FOLLOW, ENDURE TILL THE END IS WHAT MAKE SENSE.
I'll stay connected and committed to like minded in Church of God ( and where will we go?, Church of God has the connection "nearest" to the 1st century church).
It's sad to see Churches of God splitting, failing & bickering. I was about to graduate from college when I attended WCG. But after reading all HWA's booklets and magazines. I was excited especially for the first time, I understood the Book of Revelation.
Under Mr Tkach Sr, WCG turned Pentecostal. And it was devastating. WCG Members' world turned upside down. Like one can just attend anywhere.
Until a friend found the RCG. It was like a breath of fresh air. A sunshine after the rain. Though, I had my doubts. Never heard of Mr David C Pack. I told my friend, are you sure?
For the first some years, he was alright. Like we observe and obeys every minute of HWA's teachings. Wonderful! It was like WCG all over again in the 80s.
Until RCG moved to the big HQ. It was announced that at last all the members of WCG will come and join us. Like Kevin Costner's movie with the famous quote: "If you build it, it will come." We sacrificed for God's people to come. We don't exactly know how many did join us.
As time passed, we who came from WCG felt the wind is changing. DPC's focus is changing. He's given titles on his name, we can bear. But he started prophesying. That to our surprise, no matter how often it fails. He just keeps on going. It's hearbreaking at times. Especially, when the old time ministers from WCG started leaving. They left us with the new ones. Those who were converted under the tutellage of DPC. That's not really bad, but they didn't experience WCG with the TRUE teaching.
What's worst those who are in leadership positions are newbies from the world of Catholicsm. Wasn't it even mentioned by Apostle Paul not to put new ones in a position in God's Church? They are young and egotistical.
It hurts, everytime DPC says in sermons. HWA doesn't know that, but we do. Or being a member of WCG doesn't matter anymore. We know these prophesies, they didn't. It's like a slapped in our faces. Sort of seeing the newbies seating more proud in their chairs. And not only young men, but young women. That they tended to be rude towards us old timers. Like, Hey! Your HWA is wrong, ok? The nerve sometimes, their faces sprawled all over the RCG magazines!
We love DPC he used to be a humble minister and focused on the prophesies handed down by HWA. Now it's like he's a different man. Sometimes we wonder, could the HQ be his test as a man of God. If he would remain humble and faithful to the TRUE prophecy gifted by God to HWA passed down to him?
DPC was hospitalized for a number of times. He and his wife was always healed. God still hears the prayers of His chosen people.
Dear God of WCG please help us. Wake up the man. And stop him from watching FOX News. Just listening to him sometimes like panicking. Why are we being political? Was HWA into politics?
Enough said. Too long.
Thank you for your comment. It is not too long - I enjoyed it. You probably voiced what many members of RCG are thinking right now.
I will also share my thoughts about Dave Pack and the Restored Church of God - some of them anyway.
Mr. Pack was with Roderick Meredith in Global Church of God when I first came to attend Global. Later, there was a split in Global. Raymond McNair and Larry Salyer took control of the corporation named Global Church of God. They fired Dr. Meredith. About 20-25% of the ministry and members went with Raymond McNair and Larry Salyer, staying in Global, and about 75-80% of the ministers and members stayed with Dr. Meredith as Dr. Meredith started a new organization, Living Church of God (LCG).
For me, at that time, it was simple. I stayed with Dr. Meredith. God uses hierarchical government, not voting, to govern His Church, and Dr. Meredith was clearly the leader over Global Church of God - he raised it up.
About that time, give or take a few weeks, Mr. Dave Pack left Global to start Restored Church of God. But in my opinion, he should have stayed with Dr. Meredith and respected the office. I do not remember the details of my thinking at that time. He also quickly published a booklet explaining what he did and why. I found problems in it, but again, it was a long time ago and I do not remember the details.
I still think LCG under Mr. Gerald Weston is the best place for a Church of God member to attend and support.
I would ask a question for you to consider. Are you zealous for getting the gospel message and the Ezekiel warning to all Israel and the world? If you are "on fire" for the gospel and want to obey God's instructions to get the warning message out to the public via TV, Internet, magazines and booklets, public meetings, etc. please consider Living Church of God. No Church of God is perfect these days (or any days I guess), but I think LCG is doing the best job right now.
If you have no interest in preaching the gospel or the Ezekiel warning message to the public - if you think the Church should just feed the flock and get the bride ready - then you might consider Church of God Assembly (COGA), led by Mr. Sheldon Monson. You can sample his sermons and Bible studies online. He seems to have no real zeal for preaching the gospel to the world, although he may do something in a small way. He seems to give it low priority compared to other activities, such as a winter weekend. He also seems to have disqualified himself, unless he repents, from being given an open door for preaching the gospel by taking a stand to learn and accept no new knowledge from the Bible, the exact OPPOSITE of what he must ask the public to do if he preaches the gospel. So I do not expect him to succeed much in preaching the gospel to the world. He will probably try, in a small way. I do not think God will give him an open door for that, unless he repents of his positions against learning new knowledge from God and believing God more than man.
Should you stay with Mr. Pack? I don't think so. God says to beware of false prophets, and we will know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15-20). The fruits of Mr. Pack are not good. We are also to keep ourselves far from a false matter (Exodus 23:7). We should not support those who teach falsehood. No group is perfect, and I don't say that we should withhold support from any group that has error - we could not support anyone in that case. But when error increases and becomes an embarrassment to the Church of God, that may be a signal from God to look elsewhere.
If you think the Church of God should preach the gospel to the world and the Ezekiel warning to Israel, I think the best group you could support is Living Church of God.
If not, and if you might be interested in Church of God Assembly led by Mr. Sheldon Monson, you can look at my posts in this blog since August. Somewhere there I have links and I share my views of related issues.
I'm sorry for the error. Should be DCP instead of DPC. I like this Blog, members are calmer with their opinions. Others are angry. Keep up this good work.
I dont think the Churches of God should be finding fault with each other . After 55 years of contact its not hard to see things not right sometimes . But are we not meant to see the best in each other ? There is great benefit in having weekly Sabbath services in your area . Only UCG provides that here . Giving us a spiritual home to bring up our daughter . We would not want to change to some tiny group that you can never meet with over some small point . UCG has now had the same leader for 8 years no voting . The ballot system is used like selecting advice from a multitude of councilors after praying for guidance . The top down system failed miserably when Mr. Armstrong chose the next leader , That's what UCG is trying to avoid . Are any church leaders thinking of the joy it would bring the membership if there were moves towards unity ? At least United allowed others to attend with us at the feast before covid . Feast sites together would be a good starting point . Us old ones can tick over until Christ comes back . But the young now have less chance now to find a mate . Many have left over this issue .
Thank you for your insightful comment.
You are right that we should not have a mindset that tries to look for faults in others. We should look for the good in others as a general rule, especially in regard to individuals, not organizations. Yet God, in His word, corrects us in love, and He gives us principles that there are times we should correct each other, in love. God Himself sets an example of giving harsh warnings and harsh words towards those who do not obey. Jesus had harsh words for the Pharisees calling them snakes, fools, and hypocrites (Matthew 23:13-33). God has harsh words for Israel in the Old Testement prophecies.
He also instructs us to warn those who are "off track" and need to change course (1 Thessalonians 5:14, Proverbs 24:11, Ezekiel 3:17-21, James 5:19-20).
I don't necessarily fault lay members who, for reason of geographic necessity, attend with not the best group, but there are many who have no such necessity who attend with a group that is not following Christ because they do not properly value the lessons God gives us in His word. There are also ministers and leaders who could change things for the better, but don't.
Government is not a small point. Ministers who submit to other men elected by men are not submitting to Christ. They reject Christ's choice of leaders and choose their own leaders. This affects the work of God and divides the Church.
You said that UCG has now had the same leader for 8 years no voting. That means that the ministry has followed a leader chosen by men, not God, for eight years.
You said that the ballot system is used like selecting advice from a multitude of councilors after praying for guidance. Yes, it is like selecting advice, that is, it is similar to advice, but not exactly the same. The difference is this - when you get advice, you can follow it or reject it, and sometimes advice must be rejected. But the ballot system carries authority - the balloting IS the decision, it doesn't guide the decision. David did not always follow advice, and we should not either (1 Samuel 23:1-5, 1 Samuel 24:4-7, 1 Samuel 26:7-12).
The top down system did not fail when Mr. Armstrong appointed Mr. Tkach as successor. It worked perfectly as God intended. It was Jesus Christ, head of the Church, who chose Mr. Tkach because the Church had become Laodicean and the time came for Christ to "spit the church out of his mouth" - scatter it - to wake us up, to try us, to test us, to chasten us, as He says to the Laodiceans in Revelation chapter 3. When ministers look back now and say, "it didn't work", they are disagreeing with the decision Christ made. They are saying, "we can do it better than Christ, we can decide better than Christ who our leaders will be, democracy works better than God's appointment".
Young people finding a mate is certainly an issue, and one may have to attend and visit with different groups to find a mate. But the divisions that exist between the groups are serious divisions, and the divisions are caused by those who do not follow the lessons of the Bible.
Thank you for the story of how the united church of god split.no one ever told me about how the split occured in 2010 to 2011 true if there is any isue between brothers and is not corrected on time
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