tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post8721496139400000180..comments2023-07-13T00:09:18.439-05:00Comments on Preaching the Gospel: Should Someone Who Contradicts Church Leadership Be Disfellowshipped?author@ptgbook.orghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-36501264439915507852013-04-20T06:36:09.686-05:002013-04-20T06:36:09.686-05:00Anonymous April 14, 2013 at 9:49 PM said: ".....Anonymous April 14, 2013 at 9:49 PM said: "...Yes, I agree with, the blogger; angels are spirit and have eternal life, and the bible states clearly that Satan will be tormented for an eternity: Revelation 20:10..."<br /><br />What would be the purpose for God to torment Satan for an eternity? Why would God allow such a thing like that to occur?<br /><br />Being confined to some "bottomless pit" for a thousand years is one thing, but tormented for an eternity is something else.<br /><br />Also, is it not true that the word for "eternity" may also mean: "period of time," and not something that goes on and on for eternity? Satan will be in that "bottomles pit" for a period of time, but it only lasts 1,000 years.<br /><br />Also, God's Word says: “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” 1 John 3:15<br /><br />Satan was a murderer from the beginning, and Cain's murder of Abel, was caused by Satan (I John 3:12). Will God have one standard for evil angels and a different standard for human beings?<br /><br />We may also read: "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" Matthew 25:41<br /><br />Why? Is that only to torment Satan? Convert it somehow to "ashes?" Will God have one standard for Satan and another standard for human beings?<br /><br /><br />If what you say is true, then how do you explain the following verses?<br /><br />"In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea." Isaiah 27:1<br /><br />Is that not talking about Satan's being slain? Not tormented, but "slay the dragon?"<br /><br />"But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch..." Isaiah 14:19<br /><br />Is that verse not speaking about Satan's death? One can't come out of a grave unless one is first in it. If that thing is made alive, and is subsequently later put to death, might that possibly be a "second death," "twice dead" for that thing?<br /><br />In Ezekiel God says He will destroy Satan:<br /><br />Ezekiel 28:16 “By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.”<br /><br />Is God lying there? How God does all of this: I don't know. That's His business, but He intends to destroy Satan.<br /><br />Someday, we will all witness what is left of Satan and that thing will not be alive and in torment:<br /><br />Ezekiel 28:18 “Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffic; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.”<br /><br />Again, I don't know how God will do that, but isn't that what He is saying? Satan isn't forever. God is forever, but not Satan.<br /><br />Eternally tormenting the crooked serpent (formed by God: Job 26:13) forever makes no sense in the light of such scriptures as those cited above (and there are others).<br /> <br />John<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-55581858654158469942013-04-14T21:49:44.146-05:002013-04-14T21:49:44.146-05:00Yes, I agree with, the blogger; angels are spirit ...Yes, I agree with, the blogger; angels are spirit and have eternal life, and the bible states clearly that Satan will be tormented for an eternity:<br /><br />Revelation 20:10Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-47838969111037828452013-04-14T14:46:32.103-05:002013-04-14T14:46:32.103-05:00Luke 20:35-36.
Certainly Satan can murder. But w...Luke 20:35-36.<br /><br />Certainly Satan can murder. But when I said, angels cannot murder, it was in the context of what I said previously, they cannot literally murder each other by ending the life, the existence, of another angel. But yes, Satan is a murderer because he hates, and hate is the spiritual equivelent of murder, which is a point I was trying to make.<br /><br />As far as expressing opinion or speculation, anyone who does not want to read my opinion can stop reading when I say, "what follows is my opinion."author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-5623760311879105602013-04-14T11:20:00.394-05:002013-04-14T11:20:00.394-05:00Author,
Within this post you have decided to give...Author,<br /><br />Within this post you have decided to give us more of your opinion and speculation.<br /><br />Personally, I think you'd be much better off without doing that, because many of us have had decades of opinions and speculations from others. There seems to be no end to such things.<br /><br />For example, within this post you wrote: "...Angels cannot die..."<br /><br />Someone else also told us that, but what does the Bible say? Angels can die. The evil angels will in the future be taken and destroyed:<br /> <br />“But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;” 2 Peter 2:12<br /><br />Even Satan (his life/death are covered in Isaiah 14, Ezekiel 28 and elsewhere in scripture) will one day be destroyed, become ashes:<br /><br />Ezekiel 28:18 “Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee."<br /><br />Satan will become as though that vile, evil, thing had never existed! How do we know? Next verse:<br /><br />:19 "All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.”<br /><br />How God accomplishes all of that: that is His business and He can't lie.<br /><br />To cite one more example of your opinion/speculation, you wrote: "...Angels cannot murder, but they can hate, and hate is the spirit of murder..."<br /><br /><br />What does God's Word say? Who was the first murderer? Who was the murderer from the beginning? Satan!<br /> <br />Satan murdered God’s Son. We know Judas acted in the direction towards Christ's murder after Satan (James 4:5) entered him.<br /><br />And Cain? Satan made Cain kill Abel (I John 3:12).<br /><br />"Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother." I John 3:8<br /><br />We know God has told us that we do not wrestle flesh and blood, our brothers and sisters, but them evil spirit beings (Eph 6).<br /><br />Satan is a murderer from the beginning: “Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.” John 8:44<br /><br />Anyway, as I said, I think you'd do better to avoid speculation, but do as you wish, but I believe, based upon scriptures, those wicked spirit beings have murdered, do murder, and will continue to murder and for that reason, and other reasons, God will later take and destroy them. For now, they are used in the fulfillment of God's perfect Plan of Salvation. They do not exist by accident or happenstance...and in the meantime we all are learning to one degree or another to hate evil.<br /><br />John<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-68949036856111237992013-04-12T13:02:27.694-05:002013-04-12T13:02:27.694-05:00I frankly wish the Church would disfellowship peop...I frankly wish the Church would disfellowship people who have these exclusive cliques or those people when tend to be mean spirited towards certain members.<br /><br />There is just too much arrogance allowed in some of these congregations, and more than once I have seen an elderly person sitting alone with no one to talk to after services, or a black person sitting alone.<br /><br />I can remember when I was a kid and would visit headquarters in Pasadena: the people there were aloof and snooty.<br /><br />Why do we not emphasize the love of the brethren more than we do? Why do we not emphasize helping out the poor among us and the unemployed? <br /><br />Why are we obsessed with the "conservative" aspects of doctrine but we largely ignore the "liberal" aspects like inclusiveness and the power of loving each member equally?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-16465761631685005242013-04-12T07:31:00.725-05:002013-04-12T07:31:00.725-05:00No doubt people can put a spin on the scriptures, ...No doubt people can put a <i>spin </i>on the scriptures, to prove that they are right and the other person is wrong. One man's view about disfellowship is another man's view about been cast out of the synagogue (church).<br /><br />The way I see it, lawlessness can be a lack of governing oneself in a relationship with other people. It looks to me having less to do with the issue of doctrine at hand and more to do with how a person is acting/behaving among others.<br /><br />Norbert<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com