tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post2458016694769896360..comments2023-07-13T00:09:18.439-05:00Comments on Preaching the Gospel: The Gospel and How to Preach Itauthor@ptgbook.orghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-24518782395860408022016-10-06T09:21:24.077-05:002016-10-06T09:21:24.077-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-3833468131201073732016-10-06T09:17:55.005-05:002016-10-06T09:17:55.005-05:00Editor has replied to my comment in this discussio...Editor has replied to my comment in this discussion in the comments of the post I published after this one entitled, "The Day of Trumpets, and Understanding Our Trials", dated September 30, 2016. See those comments to follow this discussion.author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-2307547364214101882016-09-30T14:33:28.861-05:002016-09-30T14:33:28.861-05:00The evidence in the Bible that the kind of voting ...The evidence in the Bible that the kind of voting UCG uses to govern itself is NOT how Christ governs the Church is probably more than 100 times greater in numbers of verses than anything about where the marriage supper takes place. It is one of the clearest and most easily proved doctrines Mr. Armstrong taught. I have included an entire chapter in my book, Preaching the Gospel, on the subject. Moreover, unlike the location of the marriage supper, Church governance is important for us to understand because it affects our actions. It has a direct effect on our responsiveness to Christ's leadership, and the Church of God needs Christ's direct leadership to make wise decisions concerning God's law, true doctrine, and the preaching of the gospel. Christ leads, but He won't force us to follow, and UCG's choice to govern themselves by the voting of men puts in doubt whether they are submitting to Christ at all.<br /><br />I cannot trust men to make right decisions about preaching the gospel if those men obtained their authority to make those decisions by winning a popularity contest with other men. Being popular with men does not indicate decision making wisdom for preaching the gospel. I would rather support someone whom GOD has appointed to the office. God knows far better than the voting ministers in UCG who has the wisdom to preach the gospel and who does not. And God shows whom He has appointed by the fruits.<br /><br />It is also important because we are to be learning a way of life that we will practice in the Kingdom of God for eternity, and voting will have no part in God's kingdom. By voting or living under the authority of those whom MEN have voted for in a popularity contest, we are learning the wrong lessons. We are practicing a wrong way of life. We are telling God that we know better than Him who should lead, and therefore God should let us pick our own leaders by voting. <br /><br />So compare the two issues. The marriage supper location will be known to us when Christ returns - He will tell us - and we don't need to know now because none of us are going to go there before Christ returns. No one will miss out on the marriage supper if he makes a mistake now about the location. But the issue of governance in the Church is of major importance because it can determine if we are following Christ or following men. If I want to follow men, I will support the leaders men vote for, but if I want to follow Christ, I will support those whom Christ has appointed and made known by the fruits, which is the Bible way, not by voting of men.author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-68281030420241001112016-09-30T14:20:13.276-05:002016-09-30T14:20:13.276-05:00I am aware of LCG's change in Mr. Armstrong...I am aware of LCG's change in Mr. Armstrong's doctrine that Mr. Ames announced, and I listened to the sermon Mr. Ames gave on that subject when it was published. I do not mean to imply that I unconditionally agree with the change, but simply that I do not know. I would have to study it in more depth to even have a chance to know for certain either way, whether the change is right or wrong, and even if I studied it there is no guarentee that I would find enough Bible evidence to be absolutely convinced one way or another. <br /><br />But I am certain of this one thing: As I said in my comment, if God is merciful to me to include me in the first resurrection, I will go wherever Christ leads me. If He says, "We are going to heaven for the marriage supper", then I will go with Him, and if He says, "We are going to have the marriage supper on earth", then I will stay with Him here on earth. So either way, it doesn't matter. Christ must know where the marriage supper will take place, and I don't need to. I will find out when He comes.<br /><br />My job is not to figure out where the marriage supper will take place. My job is to love my 500 million neighbors who will go through the great tribulation, most of whom have not heard a warning.<br /><br />The only way this would be an important issue for me is if the evidence was so clear that the marriage supper will NOT be in heaven that for a group of ministers to conclude that we are going to heaven indicates they are not being honest to follow the scriptures, and that attitude of the ministers could disqualify them from receiving God's blessing for preaching the gospel.<br /><br />That is not the case with the marriage supper doctrine. I am convinced from listening to Mr. Ames's sermon that LCG leadership has found sufficient evidence that seems to point in favor of their position that they are sincere. If they are wrong, I have no reason to think, with this particular issue, that it is anything other than an honest mistake. And I have not found sufficient evidence in the Bible to even conclude they are wrong.<br /><br />Not so with the doctrine of government in the Church being from the top down. That is a sure and certain doctrine of the Bible, and it is an important doctrine, a doctrine that UCG has abandoned in favor of self-rule through voting.author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-69752637606537240012016-09-29T23:15:01.908-05:002016-09-29T23:15:01.908-05:00Hello Author;
I was not trying to stir up any kind...Hello Author;<br />I was not trying to stir up any kind of "debate" with you and maybe I used some words I shouldn't have--for which I apologize for.<br />You said; "I know of no false doctrine regarding the return of Christ that LCG is teaching." does this mean you think the Marriage to Christ will be at the "throne of God in the third heaven" or that you just do not know of that teaching? <br />Richard Ames produced an article and a sermon on this and it was backed by RCM a few years ago. This, if true would contradict most of the verses where Christ explained how His return would be and constitute a third coming to earth by Christ when he returns with the Saints--or one or the other of those would be in secret. Mr. Armstrong did not teach this; in fact said we do not go back to heaven. It came to my attention a few years ago by one of their members that many of them who are there do not accept this doctrine because Heb.9:28 says He is coming a second time--not to get the saints and then go back to the 3rd heaven for the wedding, which would mean Christ would be returning a third time to set up the Kingdom. many passages indicate that His return is singular. Many view this (correctly I think) as being a false doctrine LCG has adopted--with possibly parts of the rapture theory. There are other points of disagreement with Scripture I am aware of--but will not get into at this point. I do not disagree that they are preaching the Gospel--but even UCG has the "Beyond today" program--so they are not exclusive in this as sometimes they claim. It seemed to me you were indicating to your readers that it would be best for people to be in LCG congregations to support the Gospel going out--which I disagree with.<br />EditorEditorhttp://www.tcogmso.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-60345379337959037502016-09-29T16:32:16.341-05:002016-09-29T16:32:16.341-05:00I said before I do not expect perfection from any ...I said before I do not expect perfection from any Church of God group before I support them in the preaching of the gospel with my tithes and offerings and prayers. I am willing to overlook minor errors and look at the big picture, for two reasons.<br /><br />One, God never qualifies His command to pay our tithes and offerings with the condition that the people we tithe to have to be perfect and free from error. If that were the case, the whole law of tithing would be nullified. Even in the Old Testament, when tithes were paid to the priests and Levites, it is evident that the priests and Levites were not perfectly faithful. Even Aaron made a golden calf, yet God commanded tithing. And today, no servant of God is free from errors and mistakes. <br /><br />For years Mr. Armstrong taught that Pentecost was on a Monday. If you knew the truth at that time, that Pentecost was on a Sunday, would you have withheld your tithes from Mr. Armstrong because he was making a mistake? If you and others had withheld tithes and offerings because Mr. Armstrong was not perfect in his doctrines, then I might never have found the Plain Truth Magazine or saw the TV program and come into the Church of God.<br /><br />Which brings me to the second point, which is, it is for the benefit of those who hear the gospel and the warning message that I overlook small errors to support whatever group is free from major errors and is effectively getting the message out to thousands. I want love for my neighbors to be my motivation, and I try to support those who are helping to get the message out to my neighbors, EFFECTIVELY, reaching hundreds of thousands of people, the more the better.<br /><br />When Christ returns, if God counts me worthy to be in that first resurrection, I will go wherever He leads me to go (Revelation 14:4).author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-6554316349367680382016-09-29T16:30:27.132-05:002016-09-29T16:30:27.132-05:00I do not know why you say that it is typical of me...I do not know why you say that it is typical of me not to publish comments I disagree with. I do not publish a list of criteria for how I moderate comments because each comment is published or not on an individual judgment basis. But disagreement with what I say is usually not by itself a major factor. I look at a variety of factors, including (a) Does the comment fit the subject of the post or does it go off on a tangent?, (b) Does the comment contribute something useful to the discussion (even if I do not agree, it might be a useful point to discuss or consider)?, (c) Does the comment discuss the subject intellegently and courteously, or does the comment contain sarcasm and an attitude of bitterness?, (d) Does the comment introduce links to websites I have not verified as being safe from heresy?<br /><br />There may be other factors I use in my decision, but the ones I have listed above come to mind.<br /><br />I have not edited comments (publish one part of a comment while I delete an offensive part of the comment) in the past, so if someone puts something offensive in a comment with something good, I have to accept or delete the whole comment. This blog platform does not give me the option to edit comments that way even if I wanted to do it. <br /><br />These are some of the factors I consider when deciding if to publish a comment or not, and good points can sometimes override bad ones when I decide. But I do not simply reject comments that I disagree with or comments that correct me for that reason alone. I sometimes accept and acknowledge correction for my mistakes.<br /><br />Have you forgotten the comments in the post on Sunday, September 13, 2015 entitled, "What the Day of Trumpets Represents" in my blog? Someone, you I think, corrected me on neglecting to mention the seven last plagues in the meaning of Trumpets. I accepted the correction and published your comment. <br /><br />Or you might read the exchange between John Carmack and myself in the post on Thursday, June 30, 2011 entitled "COGWA Proposed Governance" if you think it is "typical" of me not to publish comments I disagree with.author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-39536461055638185192016-09-29T16:28:24.532-05:002016-09-29T16:28:24.532-05:00In evaluating a group or fellowship in the Church ...In evaluating a group or fellowship in the Church of God, I look for three things: <br /> <br />1) Willingness to believe the Bible more than Mr. Armstrong, more than Church of God traditions, more than ministerial authority, and more than one's own opinion, and to teach this belief in the Bible to their members. In looking at groups, I do not expect to find a group that is perfect and never makes mistakes, but I make a difference between mistakes in small details and mistakes in large matters, and I look at whether they are willing to correct their mistakes over time.<br /><br />2) Top-down government rather than voting. This itself is a major reflection of the first point above, because if a Church of God fellowship sets up a system of voting to govern itself, that alone is strong evidence that they are not willing to follow the clear teaching of the Bible even in governance, which is a major doctrine and not a small detail of prophecy.<br /><br />3) Zeal for preaching the gospel to the world and the Ezekiel warning to Israel, that is, the warning of the great tribulation to come if our nations do not repent of their sins and an explanation of what those sins are. This zeal can be evaluated by looking at a number of points of evidence including audited and published financial statements showing that close to half of income received by a fellowship goes to the preaching of the gospel, increasing magazine circulation, regular baptisms of new members brought in from the preaching of the gospel, public Bible lectures, etc.<br /><br />I also look at a fourth factor, which can be a negative, and that might be major doctrinal errors or a strong pattern of such errors.<br /><br />So if a fellowship is faithful in the three items I mentioned and does not have any major doctrinal error and the leader generally teaches the truth (but might make minor mistakes), I will tend to support that group. <br /><br />I am not looking to get into a group-by-group evaluation here. I am not going to try to list every fellowship and discuss why I do not think they are doing as good a job as LCG. Anyone can evaluate all the Church of God fellowships they know of on the same basis I have outlined and can draw their own conclusions. And if they disagree with the major points I have mentioned - (1) putting the Bible first, (2) top-down governance, (3) zeal for the gospel and Ezekiel warning, and finally (4) an absence of major doctrinal error - I would be happy to discuss from the Bible why those factors are important.author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-6360503680695688602016-09-29T16:24:57.364-05:002016-09-29T16:24:57.364-05:00No Church of God fellowship or work done by human ...No Church of God fellowship or work done by human instruments is perfect. I know of no work of preaching the gospel and the Ezekiel warning to the public, making disciples, and feeding the flock in a balanced way that is more effective than the work being done by the ministers and members of Living Church of God. I do not agree with everything every LCG minister has said. But they overall are doing the work of warning the nations.<br /><br />I know of no false doctrine regarding the return of Christ that LCG is teaching. There are some minor points of detail I am not sure about one way or another because I have not studied all the details in depth, and I am not sure I could be certain I understood the details even if I took the time to study those details in depth. Some details in the Bible are not absolutely clear to me. But I know that LCG is correct on the major aspects of the return of Christ, and if they are mistaken in details, those details are minor in importance and are not a factor in my evalution.<br /><br />I do not deny that others are trying to preach the gospel as best they can with what they have to work with, but I have not found one that God has blessed with an open door to the degree he has blessed LCG with an open door.<br /><br />I believe LCG is preaching the gospel with a voice lifted up. I have never claimed myself to be a voice lifted up.<br /><br />To be a voice lifted up requires more than just speaking strongly. It requires God opening a door and it requires a spirit of sacrifice to go through that door. At this time, it requires money. You can speak as strongly and as powerfully as you like on your website, but unless there is strong traffic to your website, it doesn't reach many people. That is not a voice lifted up, in my opinion. LCG speaks strongly against sin, and they have the money to get the message out to hundreds of thousands of people.<br /><br />In at least one case I know of, a television message sent out by LCG was rejected by a major station because it spoke too strongly and directly against sin.<br /><br />In a sense, I personally am a part of the voice lifted up that LCG represents because I contribute to them with my tithes and offerings.author@ptgbook.orghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13775228362728122027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1081631727760066049.post-18475243825669274962016-09-29T01:00:35.155-05:002016-09-29T01:00:35.155-05:00I am sorry for you author, but when you mentioned ...I am sorry for you author, but when you mentioned this; "I think Living Church of God is doing the best job in that department. If one can attend a Living Church of God congregation, that is the best way."---I totally disagree and it seems you may be biased--they have some false doctrines concerning the return of Christ (Trumpets not that far away) that is part of preaching the Gospel, and are deceiving, a deviation from truth, so this statement turned me from putting a lot of confidence in what you have to say. It shows me you are not that up on what is really going on in the COG realm today as for the Gospel proclamation. Many others are preaching the Gospel as best they can with what they have to do it with, and doing it properly according to Scripture. Preaching about the Holy Days is part of the Gospel as well as prophetic fulfillment.<br />For example my web site had immediate info on the Brexit vote being prophetic fulfillment as did the COGwa web site. others are preaching the Gospel and prophetic fulfillment; LCG does not have a monopoly on that, even though they claim to being doing the best. They are only a small part of the Laodicean COG, as it is very scattered and others are reaching around the world as well with the truth.<br />Now I realize you probably won't post this comment, as it disagrees with you, (which is typical & shame on you) but you may want to do a little better evaluation of things before you write things like this. Your idea of Preaching the Gospel & how to do it begs for more Scriptural clarity, never mentioning that it is with a Voice lifted up, which you yourself are not doing. We have the entire Bible in written form but that alone is not the way Christ did the job. He and the disciples/apostles lifted up their voices to preach the Gospel. Sorry that you have not recognized that.<br />The EditorEditorhttp://www.tcogmso.comnoreply@blogger.com